Robert Chandler : "My heart was racing and my dick was hard while reading so much of it"

    I recently watched a documentary, aptly named, Dirty Sexy Comics (2018). The subject was too perfect not to appear in the columns of the RECTUM, so I asked a few questions to its director.

LE RECTUM: To begin, can you introduce yourself briefly?

ROBERT CHANDLER: I’m Robert Chandler, a filmmaker and writer who's passionate about creating and promoting sex-positive media. As a gay man, I'm particularly interested in exploring sex-positive art and culture. I hope to amplify the voices of those who are often marginalized or silenced and to show how awesome our community truly is.

What was the place of gay erotic comics in your life?

I’ve loved comics since I was seven. I love the art, the big stories and the larger-than-life characters. I was so thrilled when I found comics with gay men celebrating their sexuality. It allowed me to see myself in an art form I love. And it kept comics in my life after coming out as a horny young man! Basically, they gave me a connection to what made me happy in my childhood to what I needed as I was becoming an adult. I felt starved for representations of my own desires and these comics provided a space to explore and expand my own sexuality and desires. Gay erotic comics are authentic and empowering! The men who created these comics invited me into their heads and their libidos in a smart and fantastic way.

How was the Dirty Sexy Comics project born? How did all of this come together? I am thinking in particular of funding.

I first got the idea on the long drive from West Hollywood to the San Diego Comic Con. I had been doing DVD featurettes for a few studios but the work was slowing down due to the economic downturn. I was looking for a project that meant something to me. I love comics. I love gay men. And I love sex. I chatted with writer/artist Jon Macy at the con and he thought it was a great idea. He also said he’d participate. Once I got started, Patrick Fillian and Frasier (from Class Comics) connected me with the good people from AdamMale.com. They liked the project and my plan for it. They were very generous and patient with me. I loved having them involved not only for the financial support, but because their parent company, Adam & Eve, has a long history of philanthropic work focused on sexual health and education. and I was proud to have them on board as a sponsor for the project. Thanks to the seed money from AdamMale.com, I was able to travel and interview a diverse group of artists and experts. I am so grateful for their support and for the opportunity to bring this project to life.

The first traces of erotic gay comics mentioned in the film are rare gay copies of the Tijuana Bibles. Have you been able to consult them?

I wish I could get my hands on some! Tijuana Bibles with gay content were pretty rare, but they did exist. They often featured well-known male celebrities (like James Cagney and western film actors) or fictional characters (like “Harold Teen”) having gay sex. Some of these were made for a gay audience, while others were intended to be humorous or satirical. We were sometimes the butt of the joke. Unfortunately, because of the taboo nature of these comics and the fact that they were often printed on low-quality paper, they're now extremely rare. I've managed to find a few examples online, but I'm always on the lookout for more. If anyone out there has some of these gay “Bibles,” send them my way! 

From Kake Pleasure Park (Tom of Finland)

If we had to mention only one name, it would be Tom of Finland. Its (bright!) shadow is everywhere when it comes to drawing desire between men. What was your view of Tom of Finland's work before starting the documentary?

Yes! Tom of Finland (Touko Laaksonen) is such a huge presence in the film and to the art form! He is to gay erotic comics what Elvis AND The Beatles are to rock and roll! Before my research, I didn’t know just how large his contributions to comics were. I knew he loomed large as a gay erotic artist and defined a certain hyper-masculineized look, but I didn’t realize how much of his art was sequential and could be defined as comics. He loved comics. He was influenced by comics like Alex Raymond’s Flash Gordon and Finish comic strips. He had been creating comics since childhood— though without the hung leathermen we’d later see from him!

Did the exchanges that you were able to have for this film with artists, writers, editors shed light on a new aspect of Tom of Finland's work?

Absolutely. While many may know him as a fine artist specializing in erotica, it was a revelation to discover that much of his work is actually sequential storytelling, with many of his stand-alone images serving as parts of larger stories. His love for comics and sequential storytelling is often overlooked, but his contributions to the medium are substantial. So much of his work was comics! Real, full-on comics! It’s so much more than big-dicked leathermen posing provocatively. I also realized how much joy there is in his work, so much playfulness. The men are having fun. Look at the eyes of the men he creates and see those smirks. It's clear that Tom himself had a lot of fun creating these images, and that joy comes through in every piece. 

One of the most rewarding aspects of making this film was the opportunity to speak with Durk Dehner, founder of the Tom of Finland Foundation. He is such a delight, so warm, enthusiastic and knowledgeable. He embodies the spirit of sexual rebellion and passion for erotic art that Tom of Finland's work celebrates.

I had been to several events at the Tom of Finland House over the years, but I’d never had a chance to have such an extensive conversation with Mr. Denher. He’s really what gay pride is all about. He loves erotic art and loves sharing his knowledge and stories! He welcomes people like me into his amazing home and shares the most wonderful stories, insights and art. And he lights up white doing it. Meeting guys like Durk, who embody the best of our community, was a reminder of the power of art to bring people together and to celebrate our shared experiences.

Although I had attended events at the Tom of Finland House before, I had never had the chance to speak with Mr. Denher in such depth. His willingness to share his stories, insights, and art was truly inspiring, and his passion for preserving Tom's legacy is infectious. Meeting guys like Mr. Denher, who embodies the best of our community, made me feel the power of gay art to bring people together and to celebrate our erotic selves.

From Initiation into the Brotherhood (Tom of Finland, 1946) scan by Robert Chandler

What are your favorite Tom of Finland comics or illustrations?

I love “Initiation into the Brotherhood!” It’s an early work of Tom’s from 1946 about a group of gay men who welcome a younger man into the community. There’s a lot of fucking and sucking in the Tom style, but there’s also a lot of warmth and connectedness. And it’s hot! Gay men have become so mainstream in the last few decades, but this story underlines who we really are at our most unconventional, loving and horny. It’s us when we aren’t trying to appear “acceptable” to straight people. It also reminds me of the way I was introduced to the gay community. There was a lot of mutual desire, resulting in my first orgasm at the tragically late age of 15. The group of guys I was hanging around with introduced me to a new life that took my world from black and white to dayglo color.

There is a historical porosity between fanzines, homosexuality and comics. Has this been the case for gay erotic comics? Did photocopying play the same role in the rise of independent comics as in the rise of gay erotic comics?

It was really the rise of gay porn publications that led to the growth of gay erotic comics. Initially it was the physique magazines, which were sort of like fanzines for guys who pretended to be interested in health and fitness but really wanted to see almost-naked men. After that it was the gay porn magazines that carried pictures, reviews, news and comics. They all had signature strips and a lot of great artists go work with the porn mags. In the mid-eighties the Meatmen paperbacks collected a lot of those strips and brought them to a wider audience.

Cover for Gay Heart Throbs (Mike Kuchar, 1979)

The film shows in particular that the drawing was quickly used for an economic reason: paying a designer was cheaper than paying a photographer and his model. But this constraint also opened the door to something else: the possibility of displaying penetrations. Can you tell us about it?

Line drawings were cheap, easy and safe for gay porn publishers. Reproducing black and white line drawings didn’t involve fussy and expensive color separations like color photography did, so a few pages of comics were easy on the budget. And the guys in the drawing could have perfect bodies, big dicks and get into any poses or adventures the artists wanted them to. The drawings did whatever they were told. So much easier to work with than a model! 

Back then, drawing could show penetration when photographs couldn’t. It wasn’t depicting a crime. We have to remember that the very act of gay sex was illegal in most of the United States and beyond. A photograph of fucking was a much evidence of a crime then as a selfie of a bank robbery would be today. But drawings couldn’t be arrested. Sure, there were brushes with the law, often involving the post office, but these scrapes came along with most gay content being published and mailed. Fortunately, we had brave and brilliant gay men and legal experts willing to take on government bodies when it was very dangerous. Cases like One, Inc. v. Olesen started giving us a chance to express ourselves. Many more challenges followed.

It's also worth noting that the rise of gay erotic comics was part of a larger movement towards sexual liberation in the 20th century. As society became (slightly) more accepting of homosexuality, artists and publishers were emboldened to create works that were more explicit and subversive. This was an important step in the fight for our rights, helping to normalize gay desire and challenge the stigma surrounding homosexuality.

For a long time, homosexuality and pornography have been taboo subjects. Artists dealing with these subjects therefore took risks: harassment, censorship, even chemical castration. Thus, pen names have been a necessity for a long time (it is still regularly the case today). Paul Charles (The Gay Comics Geek) explains in particular that he was fired because of his activity as a gay podcaster. In your opinion, where are we today in this regard?

I wish we were farther ahead in making the expression of our full selves safe. I fear we’ve made respectability a priority over honesty. On the surface we seem to be striving for nothing but respectability. We want society at large to think we’re just like them. But we aren’t. And that’s a good thing. There is something special about being gay. We have community, history, camaraderie and our sexuality. Too much of that gets ignored as we struggle for assimilation. Our broader culture seems to be playing it safer than in previous decades so artists who push boundaries are really exposing themselves and taking risks. You mentioned how Paul Charles lost his job for vlogging about what he loves. It’s horrible. And it’s important to remember that this is still happening. Gay artists need to push against the conservative power structure. And we have to stand behind our brothers who are brave enough to express themselves honestly. That’s why I wanted to make this film. I want people to know these sexual rebels, hear their stories and see their work. 

This spirit of openness and risk is what I wanted to use the music of Pansy Division in the film. These guys are fearless and their music is unlike anyone else's. There’s no coding or gentle euphemisms. They tell our stories in a very direct way and use language we only use with our closest gay friends and lovers. They’ve called themselves the “buttfuckers of rock and roll.” They’re that and so much more. I see them as the purest form of artistic sexual liberation. They embody the spirit in their music that these gay erotic comics arts have been putting down on paper for years. And they were so receptive to letting me use their music. They say never meet your heroes, but there are exceptions.

The artists interviewed all explain that they started drawing very early on, but destroyed them once they were finished. To what extent do homophobic social pressures prevent quality archival work?

Those homophobic and sex-negative pressures have taken a serious toll on understanding erotic art and sexual expression. They inspire a terror of being caught and being “found out.” There’s that shame so many of us feel as we begin to understand our sexuality. That leads to the ritual that so many artists talked about in the film, that of drawing naked men, getting turned on, then getting ashamed and destroying the drawings. Young gay artists often BURN their erotic work. That story came up time and time again in my interviews. I did it too! As a young teen I copied pictures out of Ka-Zar comics but left the loin cloth off and drew his dick. Not only was it a huge turn on, it was empowering and exciting. Something in me drove me to express myself in that way. I hadn’t even identified as gay yet, but I was compelled by something inside me, my true self. I hid the drawings under my mattress until the fear of being found out led me to burn those drawings. This leads to a fear of discovering our true selves and causes so much unnecessary pain. Jon Macy has almost the exact same story about drawing The Micronauts! For other artists it was a naked lumberjack or pantsless paper dolls.

The other problem can be family. When gay artists pass away, families often swoop in and destroy the artist’s work. They either want to straight wash their family member or erase any evidence of them as a sexual being. Fortunately, many gay artists are now thinking about their legacies and make plans to send their work somewhere like the ONE Archives. That’s where I found Winston Leyland’s papers. It was extremely helpful to better understand the origins and successes of the Meatmen series of paperbacks.

From Down N’ Dirty Comic (Belasco)

One of the key points of gay erotic comics is their power of representation. For the first time gay men are shown smiling, enjoying their sexuality. Brad Rader talks about his drawings as a way out of the loneliness created by the lack of gay representation in mainstream culture; a sexuality, a sociability by substitution. Gay erotic comics are an opportunity for greater representation of non-stereotypical guys. Dale Lazarov talks about bears, Sean-Z talks about his discovery of Belasco's work. It's amazing to see the impact a few drawings can have on people's lives!

Boy, is it! I love the diversity represented in gay erotic comics. Sure, there are a lot of white guys with muscular bodies and huge cocks, but there are also chubby guys, older guys and guys with less than average sized dicks. (I personally LOVE a dick that’s five inches or smaller!) There are also so many colors and types of guys. Belasco does the hottest stories with Black men, bringing so much of his perspective and experience into them along with an abundance of storytelling and artistic talent. Class Comics’ offerings include men of all types in their diverse lineup of comics. Butch McLogic shows sexy men of all ages and dick sizes in his “Tug Harder” book. The cock wants what the cock wants and these books show that out cocks want men of different shapes, sizes, colors and ages. 

From Mako Finn (Patrick Fillion, 2012)

The freedom of design does not only authorize the representation of minorities. It also allows you to break physical and biological limits and simply illustrate your fantasies (by the way what is this comic around 4'15 in which the cocks are equipped with a shark fin??). Are there any limits to these representations? If so, what are they?

There are no limits! Jon Macy’s incredible “Fearful Hunter” is a hot and moving story of the love between a druid and a werewolf. Yet the passion and emotion feels so real and intense. There are sexually insatiable alien cat men (thank you, Patrick Fillion!), an underwater dweller with a shark fin on his dick (“Mako Finn”), a skateboarding ghost, superheroes galore, pirate princes, hot science fiction and sexy horror. One very meaningful story by Brad Parker involved an HIV-positive man who finds a cure but becomes a werewolf. He also learns that he can spread that cure by fucking, making him the patient zero of an AIDS cure. (Brad Parker gave us a lot of werewolves having sex with surfers courtesy of Brad Parker. Seems like horny gay artists love werewolves!)

"I'm sure there are gay readers out there who like Spidey's tight butt in his tights as much as I do." (Patrick Fillion). If you hang out a bit on Twitter, you surely haven't missed the new trend of the last few months: young gay guys dress up as Spiderman, often with a very hard and molded cock. How do you view this phenomenon?

This is an intriguing phenomena! I’m not exactly sure where this came from or why people are doing it, but I’m so glad they are! I have two theories. 

Theory One: There have been three exceptionally hot actors who have played Peter Parker on screen. Toby Maguire, Andrew Garfield and Tom Holland are all men I’ve wanted to see naked for years. When they all shared a screen in “Spider-Man: No Way Home” all I could think about was how much I wanted to see them all kiss. (Andrew Garfield’s Spider-Man seemed like he might be up for it.) Then, as they were exploring their similarities and differences, I was hoping they would start comparing dicks. Why wouldn’t they? I know it’s the first thing I’d do if I met other versions of me from the multiverse.

Theory Two: For many of us young comic book readers, Spider-Man was the most interesting character that was close to our age. Robin (at the time) was a vanilla dud, always knowing the perfect thing to do and just generally being dull as he kissed up to adult authority figures. Spider-Man was an uncertain adolescent, adapting to new powers, responsibilities and situations. Many of us saw a kindred spirit. He struggled with his new identity and responsibilities. He was relatable as well as sexy. Look at some of those poses he contorted himself into! You’d never see Wolverine or Superman with their legs over their shoulders swinging across New York!

Cover to Guardians of the Cube (2012)

I have had a dilemma for a few years: many gay fantasies are only the more or less theatrical acceptance of the homophobia in which we live: humiliation, violence (aren't the sexy chavs of Twitter the simple representation assholes who harassed us, hit us in high school?), even raped. I find some of these categories exciting but I can't help but ask the question: aren't they just normalizing, even accepting, homophobia?

I ask myself the same question all the time. I lean towards the positive and warm bonding in many of the gay erotic comics I love, but some of the more edgy stuff get me hard too. We all have some minorly messed up fantasies. It’s probably best to ask if these fantasies serve us or not. It’s possible that exploring them through fantasy is a way of healing something that affected us at an impressionable age. The chavs or bullies in your erotic desire now serve your erotic needs. You are the one getting what you want. You are the one ultimately in control when it’s your fantasy. And so much of it may be about things that imprint on us when our sexuality is developing. We have so much sexual desire built up as young teens that the experiences we have during those times get mixed in with our sexuality and shape our desires. If we find that it’s damaging or truly conflicting with our becoming who we truly want to be, we can work to redirect those desires. But if they serve us, then it seems there’s no need to pathologize them.

For me, I have to be in control and vigilant too much of the time: at work, with money, politically, to keep safe. Some of my fantasies at this point in my life are about letting go of or losing control. Erotic hypnosis really turns me on. There’s an online fumetti comic story called “Boytopia” by Chirenon about a guy that discovers a secret society, drinks an elixir and loses all his body hair and half his dick size. I was surprised at how much it turned me on, but it opened up something new in my lizard brain.

Untitled (Use a Rubber) (Tom of Finland, 1987)

AIDS is discussed in the film. The question is always the same, do the drawings have an impact on the public or are they a simple illustration of our imagination totally disconnected from reality? This is an interesting question that is addressed in the Tom of Finland biopic. What do you think ?

I don’t think that erotic comics that deal with AIDS set out to change the world. I believe many of the artists did them to cope. The 80s and 90s were a nightmare of gay people dying and straight people not caring. But the comics did help. They could serve as a form of education. Several artists illustrated AIDS awareness and condom instruction guides. Many, like the brilliant Donelan, incorporated rubbers into his erotic work, making them sexy. They also made sure people with AIDS and HIV were seen. They’ve documented the pain, frustration and loss of the crisis. They’ve become these time capsules of honest emotions.

Rage Gay Crusader (2002)

The first time I saw a connection between comics and homosexuality was in Queer as Folk. Michael Novotny is a gay character, passionate and selling comics. In the series, the comic book character Rage the gay crusader is created; It looks like three issues have come out. Have you read them?

I did! They were pretty good. They tapped into some tropes of what had been done before, like Northstar’s overwrought but groundbreaking coming out in the pages of Marvel’s Alpha Flight. But they were a great example of how superheroes can help work through real life issues and trauma like Justin’s bashing on the show.

I love that show so much. Every single season finale left me in tears, often because I was so moved by the characters’ strength, persistence and love for each other. I love Michael’s love of comics. It explains a lot about the characters earnestness and desire for justice in an unfair world. It also made a lot of us gay comics fans feel seen. The only thing that drove me crazy was the way the comics were arranged in Michael’s comic shop! There were new mixed with old on spinner racks, books just placed randomly with no thought to age, value or condition. That’s the kind of thing that triggers us comics fans! I feel like many shows or movies could use a comics consultant to get these details right. I’m willing to take on that job if called!

Lambda Rising in March 2009, shortly before it closed. (Wikipedia)

A few bookstores are mentioned in the film: Lambda Rising Bookstore (Washington), Little Sister’s Bookstore (Vancouver). What is the place of booksellers in this universe of gay erotic comics?

They were a hub for us for many, many years. They were a refuge from the straight world and a place for understanding ourselves better. Maybe they were the Internet before there was an internet. I used to drive from conservative Orange County to West Hollywood’s A Different Light bookstore and buy any new gay comics they had along with gay horror and sci fi novels. But the state of gay bookstores today is not so good, I fear. These holy places of discovery are fading quickly. First the big chain bookstores started carrying more gay material, then Amazon came along. They were a casualty of progress. And I’m sure the pandemic took down a few of the remaining booksellers. I’m not sure if I’m being an old coot, but I REALLY miss them. They were a great place for cruising!

Have you been able to exchange with collectors or see incredible collections of gay erotic comics? 

I don’t think I’ve seen a really amazing, archival collection yet, but I would love to! I think mine is pretty big and impressive. I’m quite proud of it! (Happy to show you anytime!) I’ve been buying stuff since I was a teen. I’ve hit all the gay bookstores when I traveled. I’ve found some treasures at comic conventions. And I’ve ordered from gay publishers and found treasures on eBay. But I’d love to connect with someone who’s really put some effort into building a complete collection. I’d love to hear their stories and talk about our love of the artform.

The greatest collection I saw while making this doc was Patrick Fillion’s original art files. He’s such a talented writer and artist. Getting a tour of his original art archive blew my mind!

The film is only shot on the American production. Have you had a taste of what is happening abroad? In France, for example, yaoi are taking up more and more space in bookstores.

I’m glad you brought that up. My focus for the film was on Western gay male erotic comics. There are so many other great creators around the world also that reflect their own cultures and histories. I didn’t include any of the incredible Asian works being produced because they deserve a documentary of their own. I didn’t want to rush through exploring them because there's so much great work and so many talented creators that deserve the time and attention. They reflected their own world and didn’t connect or influence what was going on in the North American gay erotic comics scene until the 21st century. But I am in awe of several Japanese and European creators. I got to see Gengoroh Tagame speak at the Tom of Finland Foundation and he was amazing! I love his work. So much of the Asian erotica is a reaction to different restrictions and motivations than here in the West. The cultural pressures, the censorship and the broader influences are different. Sure, there are a lot of commonalities, but it was too much for a 90-minute documentary and very deserving of a detailed examination. I love the yaoi and bara comics. They’re beautiful, smart, playful and they really turn me on! They deserve better than just a namecheck in my doc. The same with French erotic comics. The French see comics so differently than we do in the United States. They’re also less puritanical than the US. All that adds up to some fine comics. I’d love to see a documentary about Japanese gay erotic comics and one on French gay erotic comics— and anywhere else that has their own gay comics culture.

One of the many things I love about Class Comics is that they publish creators from all around the world. David Cantero is Spanish, Logan is French, Butch McLogic is Canagian and Jacob Mott is English. And, of course, the big guy, Tom of Finland is a European who lived through occupation in WWII. Tom’s influence gives the whole artform a perspective that reaches beyond North America.

A certain number of these comics have been translated (in particular into French). Do you know how it was received abroad?

Just from stories I’ve heard a gay comic cons, I know that people from all over the world have been touched and turned on by these stories and art. I believe that it’s because of their honesty. We may have different languages, religions and cultures but our hard, cum-filled cocks have so much in common. Lust is universal. 

From JAQrabbit Tales, screenshot by Robert Chandler

What is the news in the gay comics universe today? What's coming out exciting right now?

Jason A. Quest’s webcomic, “JAQrabbit Tales,” continues to thrill me. He’s a bisexual creator who’s been posting his semi-autobiographical comics for the past few years. They’re funny, sexy, raw, real and sometimes tragic. But always smart and entertaining. Class Comics operates a lot like Marvel and DC in their creative heydays. They find the best talent in the world with fresh ideas and make them accessible to a wide audience. Dale Lazarov’s Sticky Graphic Novels regularly puts out elegant and erotic wordless comics with some of the best artists around. And Kickstarter is a great place to find and support new works. I found and supported a wonderfully sexy book called “Santa Frances” by Jean Frederic Kone. I’m always keeping my eye out. It’s such a pleasure to support the new gay erotic artists along with the vets.

Cover to Fearful Hunter by Jon Macy (2014)

What are your favorite gay erotic comics?

Jon Macy’s “Fearful Hunter” will always mean a lot to me. My heart was racing and my dick was hard while reading so much of it. There’s magic and werewolves, but the passion is so intense. It’s like a gay erotic “Wuthering Heights.” I just love everything about Jon’s work and I love Jon so much! I worship the late Howard Cruse. Not all of his work was erotic, but his stories covered the fullness of the gay experience so they naturally included sexuality. We’d see his characters go to work, interact with their families and meet new loves. We also see them naked and hard. This wholeness makes it even sexier. Howard’s characters felt so real, so we readers felt a very intimate connection to them. Many of the same things can be said about Gerard Donelan. His erotic comics have so much humor and heart. He sees our best, our silliest and horniest behavior and puts it on the page. I love his playful cartoon style.

Dave Davenport’s punk aesthetic is so hot! It feels like his art and ideas spill right from his sweaty balls onto the pages. There’s such an authenticity to his work. He always turns me on. His “Hard to Swallow” collection (with Justin Hall) is a must-read and a pretty good place to start for one interested in gay erotic comics.

And I’m in awe of Fillion and Frasier and their Class Comics empire. They grabbed the baton from Meatmen and have continued bringing us fantastic stories from dozens of brilliant and perverted minds. Not only are they genius curators and publishers, they’re two of the most gifted storytellers in the medium.

So many of these guys inspire me and are mentors by proxy: A Jay, Brad Parker, Jerry Mills, Sean the Artist, The Hun, Belasco, F. Valentine Hooven, Tom Bouden and so many others. They all give me something, they make me feel connected, they make me think and they turn me on. I feel a real connection to the men who write these stories and draw these pictures. They are my ancestors, my fathers and my brothers. They express on page or pixel what we can’t express in our daily lives and they remind me that I’m not the only one who is constantly horny. They’ve meant so much to me. I like to think a big part of them will always be inside me!

Thank you !

Robert Chandler by Donelan (2016)

You can watch Dirty Sexy Comics here.

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